Interview taken in OMKARANANDA ASHRAM HIMALAYAS Rishikesh, Muni-Ki-Reti, Uttarakhand, India 21st March 2010
Questions raised by Acharya Shri Arumugaswami, Managing Editor of the internationally renowned Religious Journal "HINDUISM TODAY", published by Kauai's Hindu Monastery, Hawaii, U.S.A., and Answers by Shri Swami Vishveshwarananda Saraswati, President, Omkarananda Ashram

Question 1:
What is your general advice for practising the four Yogas (Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Raja Yoga)?
Answer:
Our general advice is, that we are following that which we call Karma Yoga. But it is not only Karma Yoga, we include theoretically all Yogas. It depends upon ones own living style.
First of all we are trying to live a selfless, Divine life. And at the same time we are trying to keep ourselves physically fit. On the other hand we generate and have love towards the Divinity and we try to purify our heart through strong Mantra Repetition. So this can be in relation to any Yoga. I can't say we are doing a particular Yoga, but when we speak of a selfless Divine service, then this definitely goes under the category of "Karma Yoga". And while doing Karma Yoga, we follow the teachings, which we got from our Gurudev Paramahamsa Swami Omkarananda, to see in everything the Truth, the absolute Truth, to feel everywhere the absolute Truth, to keep ourselves away from any criticism, gossiping, etc. So, through whatsoever form of Yoga one may practise this, that is up to the individual personality, but these are basic things to purify our heart.
Why we speak of Karma Yoga? Karma Yoga keeps our mind occupied. And while our mind is occupied in a very good work, in a work, which is selfless and for a good purpose, like in our case for the Ashram, so we have one advantage: when the mind is occupied, there is no danger, because mind is a very seriously dangerous object, which always tries to run away. Through hard work, the mind is occupied. It is like, when the house is burning, we have no time for any nonsense things. We try to close the fire of the house.
So if we work intensively, that means we concentrate our mind, and at the same time the work, which we are doing is for a good purpose, so there is a double benefit.
In addition to that, if we at the same time make this karmic work, this selfless work, and on the other hand we also keep ourselves occupied with prayers - but not prayers where we are showing to others that we are praying - praying in our heart, but a constant prayer, we also touch other parts of Yoga.
And a third aspect is, if we even try to see the Divinity, whomsoever it may be, be it the form of Krishna, Buddha, Rama or whomsoever it is, if we see that Light and that Truth in other personalities, it makes us a better person. So if we seriously try to practise this kind of life, then we can purify our heart. If by that our heart is purified, naturally the Grace of the Divine may surely flow more inside, than if our heart would be occupied with nonsense things.
So it is very important for the spiritual path that we can pick up one of these so called Yogas. We speak of Yoga - Yoga has become a very traditional word. But basically Yoga is a way for becoming one with the Supreme Reality. We can attain union with the Divine in so many different forms. Some speak of Bhakti Yoga. Some may say: "I can only meditate." But, who can truly meditate, even for 5 minutes concentrate on a point? I believe, hardly 5 minutes are used in concentration, most of those minutes the mind will go anywhere else and only a few fractions of a second would be truly concentrated on the Divine.
But while you engage yourself in selfless Divine service, very hard working, you generate yourself happiness, you generate yourself peace and you become a totally different personality. And your personality automatically affects others.
But with that the matter does not end. To make all these actions truthful and effective you also have to live accordingly. You also have to control your food habits, you have to control your living style, there is no question of turning here and there - you have to be on the path of a very good life.
If we are engaged in this work from morning till evening, the chance is very, very less that we can be tempted for anything else; because otherwise temptations of worldly things are highly serious. We may feel that we are not attached, where we are maybe badly attached. Once a test comes to us then we may see, if we are truthful, how miserable is our stand. So that is a very great secret in spiritual life. Temptations can come. The razor's edge between the evil and the good is so sharp, that even some time one can easily skip to any side.
You may be one of the finest spiritual seekers, but a short frock, a short cloth of a lady may tempt you in such a way that the matter can go totally the other way round. So the razor's edge, the division, is very, very sharp.
The spiritual aspirant has to be seriously careful. He can do this by keeping himself occupied in form of hard work, in form of selfless work, in form of constant Mantra recitation. That is the only way that keeps him always on the right track towards the Realization of the Divine.
And we have to do it! If we cannot succeed in this life, we have to come again and again. And we do not know, who we would be born in the next life. In the next life maybe a lot of power is given to us. Power can easily corrupt, power can blind you, money can make your mind mad, and you may think this is right but in fact it is wrong.
So to avoid all this we have to hold like a child on the Divine Mother's shirt, cry to Her, request Her for help, understand that we are nothing and nobody, simply like a leaf, that, when the wind is blowing a little bit, is driven away. Who are we, standing before the Supreme Reality, which is indescribable Beauty? Even the ink of the whole sea would not be sufficient to write about this Beauty on the vast sky.
So when we want to achieve That, we have to sacrifice many things. We can't just go into a Temple and make a few prayers and think: "Oh Divine Mother, everything is alright." We have to cry for the Divine. We have to sincerely cry for It. Will a Mummy react, when the child is simply saying: "Mummy, give me a chocolate!" She will not even react. When the child is crying, Mummy comes to the rescue.
When are we really crying for the Divine? Only when we are on the death-bed? When we know that the last seconds are being counted, then we start crying. Why can't we cry for the Divine when we are young, when our body's health is strong, why can't we cry for God, when we are in a physical position, where we can do anything?
Egoism, pride, jealousy and hatred are those things, which totally cut us off from the Reality and from the Truth. Unless, by a real intense spiritual practice, these vices have not been thrown away, spiritual progress is absolutely not possible.
Sometimes the pride can enter in many ways. There are people who have a great knowledge. Sometimes they think with that knowledge they are superior to others. But they are maybe even lower than a very simple person doing good works, going to the Temple and making a few good prayers with real dedication to the Divinity.
That is a real aspect of spiritual life and we have to be aware of it. I have often seen, that people having a certain position, are totally caught up by it. Everybody knows the power of attachment. And attachment can even go on, even if you are a seriously advanced spiritual personality. You don't know how you are caught up. How we feel insulted if anybody simply uttered the word: "You are a fool!". Then the whole heaven breaks down. Then where we are standing? Can we insult a Saint, if we would be telling: "You are the most miserable person!" He will only hear holy words here. He will not even react, whether you call him good or bad. So unless and until we have not achieved this type of position, we are simply nowhere. And we have to achieve it otherwise we will simply go on and on.
For what have we actually come to this planet here? Only for the Realization of the Divine and not only for making a paradise and a heaven. If at all we are in a position to make a paradise or heaven, then we have to do it with absolutely no attachment.
We should be capable to sleep in a Goshala (cowshed) as well as in a 5 star hotel without any attachment.
"Lack of opportunity doesn't make a man a Saint." That is very important. Maybe you have another question?

Question 2:
This is very good! You are covering it wonderfully well! Now, this is the approach of Swamiji to Karma Yoga.
There are other people also who put Karma Yoga first, would you say you have any different approach than what is done by others, is there any distinguishing factor in the way in which you approach the Karma Yoga?
Answer:
No! You see, first of all, as I said yesterday in the speech here, for us Gurudev means everything. His guidelines matter. So all of us, who have been blessed by our Gurudev Paramahamsa Swami Omkarananda, follow His instructions. His instructions were very simple. His instructions were: "Every second use for the Realization of the Truth. Don't waste a single second. A single second, you are wasting in your life, you can't get back anymore. So do it, do it now!" That was the objective of Swami Omkarananda.
And Swami Omkarananda had the excellent capacity to put a person in such a place where this person could fully develop his talents while following the spiritual path of Karma Yoga.
For example, when Swamiji had seen, that a person is more fit for physical activities, then he put that person at such a place, where he could express his talents in that particular field, keeping himself engaged. In this way that person was protected from any unwanted matter, which could drag him away from the spiritual path. ("Empty mind is devil's workshop.")
Everyone who is here, is practising not only this path of Karma Yoga, but including also the other forms of Yoga, but the main part is definitely Karma Yoga. And everybody is free! Gurudev Swami Omkarananda has never put a pressure on a particular person saying "You should", but Gurudev has always advised and said: "It is better..." He said to me: "If you get up at 4 o'clock, then you have a great capacity to make fast spiritual progress, because the morning hours are very, very important", but He never had ordered me to get up.
Swamiji has never made religion as a military aspect, Swamiji has given the key for real spiritual development, rest one has to do.

Question 3:
What is the biggest challenge, most common challenges the devotees face, fulfilling Swamiji's vision of Karma Yoga?
Answer:
You see, most of the challenges are not outside, most of the challenges are always inside. We feel sometimes, there are enemies, this and that is there, but the challenges are mostly coming from inside, because as long as there are certain imperfections in us, automatically these imperfections may lead to maybe jealousy, maybe lead to hatred or anything else. So the challenges are mostly in our own self, which we have to conquer. And the challenges, which are coming from outside are sometimes very good for the spiritual progress! We should never simply avoid outside challenges, because challenges can be a great step, a great ladder. The more you try to conquer challenges, the more you have the capacity to grow.

Question 4:
How is Karma Yoga related to the Temple? The Temple Bells are ringing. How is the Temple related to Karma Yoga, if at all?
Answer:
You see, the Karma Yoga, as far as the Temple is concerned, is:
We are working here, we are generating something of our own for the maintenance of the Temple.
We are going ourselves into the market, we are purchasing the clothes for the Deities, we see that the Deities are always specially cleaned and get everything, because once "Prana Pratishtha", life, is given to the Deities, then you have to treat them very particularly. We take care for the food supply and each and everything as far as the Temple is concerned. We go and inspect and see that our Temple is a clean Temple and I can say our Temple is considered, among the clean Temples, as one of the cleanest Temple and that is because we ourselves are there and taking care and including that - which we also feel is a sort of Karma Yoga - we try to see that others, serving in our Temples, also follow the rules of cleanliness, of proper behaviour, to make themselves better men. If you yourself become a better man, subsequently, when you are standing in front of the Deity, the Divinity, it has a better effect on the people, who are visiting the Temple, than if your own life is not proper. So for this we also have to take care.

We have not only to see for our Main Temple, Omkarananda-Kamakshi-Devi Mandir, we have 9 more Temples over here. We have to take care for every Temple and this is definitely not so easy because there are also outside challenges, which are coming and which we have to face, which is also a part of our work, also a part of our selfless work. But this kind of selfless work, since there is no attachment to it, makes you feel very, very happy. It makes you feel it is "yours", but still it is not yours. It is "yours" like the Divine Mother considers you as her soldier or a servant to take care for it. Everything here is belonging to the Divine Mother. Everything for us is belonging to Gurudev Swami Omkarananda. For us always first comes Gurudev, second the Ashram and last we are coming. In case a problem arises somewhere, and something good happens and people are in praise, then the credit goes to Gurudev and only to Gurudev.
So Karma Yoga is also present in such a form. Every office-work, whatever it is, whatever you do, whether you work on a computer or do something else, as long as you don't go to somebody and say: "I have worked for you so much and you have to give me so much", and if this work via Computer, via Temple, anywhere, is really concentrated for the Ashram, for the betterment of it or for the social activities, which we are doing, it definitely can be considered as a Selfless Divine Life, as a true Karma Yoga.


Question 5:
What scriptures are for you important for the approach to Karma Yoga?
Answer:
You see, the scripture, which I personally consider very important and which I like, is Bhagawad Geeta. I appreciate Bhagawad Geeta very much, because Krishna speaks directly to you, and it gives an answer, which is otherwise very difficult to get; then secondly we are also following the path of Adi Shankaracharya because we are in the Adi Shankaracharya Tradition, as my name says: Swami Vishveshwarananda Saraswati. Ramayana impresses us.
Basically we are following the scriptures, speeches, which our Gurudev has given in so wonderful forms and which are so simple. Whether it is for a housewife or a professor, they are so easily accessible and so wonderful and we are following them.
Apart from scriptures - it is really good and great to have the knowledge of them, this is one thing and it is definitely good - but to live it, is important! You can have an endless knowledge of Ramayana or Upanishads or Vedas or whatever it is, when you are not living it, then there is no power in it, there is no effect of it. Then you could just read any book. If you live according to them and if you live according to them in purity, then all these holy scriptures give you strength. It is God's Word, so it affects you. For people for whom Ganga means nothing, it is just water, but for people, who believe, Ganga is God, Ganga is the highest Purity, it is God Himself. If you believe in Mahabharata, with full enthusiasm, and try to follow every word of what Krishna said to Arjuna, if you try to implement it in your daily life, then Krishna is surely happy to see, that it is implemented so nicely.
I'd also like to tell you, that we are basically not making any caste distinctions. Here in the Ashram everybody is a Maharaja for us - whether the man who sweeps the floor is coming to us or any person coming to us - for everybody Gurudev has given very clear instruction: "The Divinity is in each and every one, you have no right to put him in a certain category, see in him the Absolute. Call him a Maharaja, that is the best way."
In any religion anyone, who truthfully lives his religion is doing the right thing. We are not going to say: "This religion is good, that is not so good", that is not our way.
As Sannyasis we are supposed to be beyond these things, completely away from all these things; we embrace all religions. We like the way this Vedic philosophy is being practised, it is something wonderful to see how these Pujas are made. Yesterday I could perform Yajna with your spiritual Brother, there, in our Temple. It is something which gives me a lot of joy. I find in the Vedic Rituals a fulfillment, a joy and happiness. The way of worshipping the Deities is so wonderful!
I know that also here certain differences are existing; some people believe in Deities, some people do not believe in Deities. If a person does not believe in Deities and still practises his own belief, whatever it is, truthfully, he will be successful. If another person truthfully believes in Deities and expresses his own deep devotion to them, strongly, he will be also successful. So we are not differentiating and we also feel, that we have no right to criticize anyone. Criticizing anything means, you are criticizing yourself very badly, and we want to avoid to enter in this type of situation.

Question 6:
Do you have any other comment or statement on Karma Yoga, that we have not yet covered?
Answer:
Karma Yoga is very important to achieve a very good health, to keep your mind seriously concentrated, because our problem is always the mind. So according to me Karma Yoga is one of the fastest paths of progress in spiritual life, because with Karma Yoga you have to sacrifice a little bit. All other Yogas also have their merits. If you seriously concentrate on one or the other path, they are definitely great, there is no doubt, I would not put any one down, but Karma Yoga is very effective, because it needs from you a lot of effort, to do a work without expecting a penny, to make any work given to you. You may be cleaning the house or maybe in the night you have to go and do some work, you may have to do anything, which is absolutely selfless and for what you are getting nothing. So that Karmic effect is fantastic, you get a good Karma because of this work. Secondly, as your mind is seriously focused on it, the Karma Yoga, to make a spiritual platform, is definitely one of the great Yoga Arts, which is very advisable for people to do.

Question 7:
Wonderful, very wonderful indeed!
A totally different subject: In the year 2012, according to the Mayan calendar, some people say there is going to be a great catastrophe. Do you believe in this business of 2012 predictions?
Answer:
I heard lot of predictions. But you see, the only catastrophe which I consider for the man in the world, is, that he has not realized the Truth. Whether the catastrophe comes or not, it is not in our hands. And when we are running to avoid all these things, it is, because we want to keep up our comfort, we want to keep up our things.
The only worry in life and the only fear in life man should have, is, that he has not realized the Truth. Because life is so tricky, so dangerous and so critical. If you consider your entire life, how many times you are really happy and how many times you are just in the slum of suffering? So, instead of concentrating on what is coming ahead, spend your life in search of the Truth and the Truth guides you even at the time of a catastrophe. So it is not your duty to check up what is coming. Your duty is to achieve the Truth. And the Truth serves you, the Truth guides you and the Truth makes, that your living style, even under the worst circumstances, will be ok.
The Divinity is everywhere, here and there, and She sees it, and if a man is truthfully living, She will always manage - through anything - to keep him safe. The only catastrophe we have to fear is that because of our ignorance we still have not yet achieved the Truth. That is the real catastrophe! The world may be having millions of catastrophes. The world may vanish millions of times, but what is with our own Consciousness, our own Realization? To achieve that is the true Goal. If once we achieve that, no any catastrophe can ever hurt us.

Question 8:
OK. While giving your answer, do you think there is any Hindu or Vedic reason for anything special on 2012?
Answer:
I must tell you very frankly, though I heard certain things here, but even if there are certain ideas, that things happen in such and such a way, etc., we don't put weight on these things. We always keep ourselves better engaged. We even feel, if we would concentrate and read too much on these things, we would waste time in concentrating on a matter. Let it come and then we will see how we will tackle it.

Acharya Arumugaswami:
Thank you very much Swamiji.